Dr Pepper Talks to Creationists

Now, please state the scientific theory of creationism.

Date: 15 Oct 93  20:21:00
From: Dr Pepper
To: Kevin Davis
Subject: Challenging Evolution
 
AREA:EVOLUTION
 
                SO YOU WANT TO ARGUE AGAINST EVOLUTION
 
 
Dear Creationist,
 
We who follow conventional science appreciate your zeal and
commitment in desiring to show us the errors of evolution. However,
it has been our experience that the vast majority of challengers
such as yourself are woefully unequipped for this endeavor. So in
order to save us all some time and grief, and to keep you from
making an utter fool of yourself, we have prepared this text to help
you out.
 
Step 1: Do you know anything at all about evolution? (you'd be
surprised how many creationists don't) Please answer the following
yes or no questions:
 
 1. Does evolution rely entirely on randomness?
 2. Does evolution violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics?
 3. Does evolution say anything about the origin of life?
 4. Does evolution say anything about the origin of the universe?
 5. Does evolution deny the existance of God?
 6. Does evolution proceed from simplicity to complexity?
 7. Does evolution proceed from lower to higher lifeforms?
 8. Does evolution incorporate the notion of progress?
 9. Does evolution have any moral consequences?
10. Does evolution stipulate any political attitudes?
11. Is evolution incompatible with any major religion?
12. Is it true that their are no transitional forms?
 
Step 2: Scoring. Count up the number of times you answered "yes". If
this number is zero, proceed to step 3. Otherwise slam your head
against the wall as many times as you answered "yes" and go back to
step 1.
 
Step 3: Materials. Do you have any materials authored by members of
the ICR? If so throw them away. Use them here and you will be held
responsible for the baltant lies and stupidity in them.
 
Step 4: Conventional Science Quotes. Are you planning to present
quotes from conventional scientists that seem to express
disagreement with evolution? If so, make sure that you have them
from the original sources and that they are quoted in full and in
context. If you have misquotes and typical creationist butcher jobs,
you will be destroyed without mercy.
 
Step 5: Creationist Quotes. If you have quotes from creationists,
they'd better be supported. And if the creationists claim educational
or scientific backgrounds, degrees, titles, and such, you'd better
check them and make sure they are accurate. If we catch you quoting
liars, we will treat you as a liar yourself.
 
Step 6: Anecdotes. If you have stories of things that you think
bolster your case, be prepared to cite verifiable specifics. Be
assured that you will be checked up on.
 
Step 7: Faqs. This newsgroup has some wonder faq files available.
Read them. Carefully. All the way through.
 
Step 8: Congratulations, you are ready to argue against evolution.
Please state your first objection.
 
---
 * Origin: I survived: Reagan-Bush, 1980-1992 (1:103/241)
 
 
Date: 15 Oct 93  20:23:00
From: Dr Pepper
To: Kevin Davis
Subject: What is evolution?
 
AREA:EVOLUTION
 
 
  A Quick Description of the Theory of Evolution for Creationists
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
First we have to distinguish between the theory of evolution, and
the fact of evolution. I'll start with the fact.
 
Well you've probably heard the phrase "A change in allele
frequencies over time" but that's a little complex. So i'll stick
with Darwin's phrase "Descent with Modification", which is still an
adequate summation.
 
Descent with modification means that as one observes a population
over time, one sees change over generations. The amount of change
can vary, but in general, the more time, the more change.
 
We can observe this happening today by direct observation, over
relatively short periods of time. And we can observe it happening in
the past through the fossil record, over relatively long periods of
time.
 
So as you can see, to say that "evolution happens" is pretty much on
a par with saying "gravity happens". The theory has to do with
*how*.
 
So now i will state the theory. Again, i will use an old and
traditional form:
 
        DIFFERENTIAL REPRODUCTIVE SUCCESS
 
which means that within a given population, different individuals
will, under the same conditions, have different chances to
reproduce, and thus pass on their particular genetic makeups. And
since genetic makeups are always changing, there are always
differences. It doesn't matter how the differences arise, nor the
nature of the circumstances that affect reproductive success. As
long as both exist, evolution will happen.
 
As you can see, my statements above contained no unfounded
assertions, no statements against any other theory, nor was it just
a list of predictions. However, it is a basis from which we can go
on and make predictions.
 
One important prediction is that for any given physical feature, (to
the extent the data is available), we can take a horizontal slice,
that is in one time period examine different species that have that
trait, and find a range of variants of it. The beaks of Darwin's
finches are a classic example of this.
 
Or we can take a vertical slice, that is look at a given trait in
through time, and see a sequence of change. Further we can see
development, that is to say, if a given trait has a given use we can
go back and find in the lineage of the creature that has that trait,
an earlier creature that has a less developed version of it, where
"less developed" is used in the sense of the later use, not in the
sense of it being *totally* useless before then.
 
A fine example of this is the development of the mammalian inner ear
from the reptilian jawbone. A faq is available on this.
 
Another, somewhat trivial prediction is the phylogenic tree itself.
 
Now of course, you have heard that there are a number of different
theories, plural, of evolution. Yes there are. And all of them are
perfectly compatible with "Descent with modification". These
theories are intended to fine tune the above and explain the
details. This is analogous to the way quantum physics explains
electron orbitals without repudiating the idea that electrons are
bound to the atomic nucleus by the attraction of opposite charges.
 
 
10                    2
       DR PEPPER
                      4
 
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 * Origin: I survived: Reagan-Bush, 1980-1992 (1:103/241)